What a game. That was fun to watch, a true hit parade.

There are some fantastic young players on these two teams. I really hope TB can come up with the cash to keep this team intact for a while.

Two incredible games by teams playing the right way. A well-pitched game from both starters in game 1, with the D to back it up. An incredible offensive showcase in game 2, with Pedroia and Youk and Bay going knock-for-knock with Longoria, Upton, and Crawford.

I've read a bunch about Maddon since around August, when it appeared the Rays were the truth. He's a smart motivator and old-school baseball dude who completely changed the culture of the franchise. I'm more impressed every game I see him manage.

I'm not much of a Sox fan and definitely want the Rays to win. But watching Boston- with homegrowns like Ellsbury, Pedroia, Varitek, Lester, Papelbon- play hard and play well, it's impossible not to respect the success their franchise has found the last 5 years. I hope the Rays win but I hope it goes 7. They've been dueling all year, I'd love to see it for five more games.

I'm tired today. but happy. Christ.......7 homers? What agame..

The Sabres winning took the sting out of this loss. Oh well, they got a split in Tampa and can bring it home. I like how Franconia left Beckette in to pitch a few more innings so that he can get the work. They will need him to play better and he should with more work. Time for Lester to put the Sox back on top! After that Dice-K is back on the hill

The only way for the Rays to win this thing is to get into Bostons pen. I've seen them do it many times this year to Boston. Thats what they have to do. Go Rays!!

All but Papelbon...No desire to get to him. But the other stiffs the BoSox trot out there are monster innings waiting to happen. And they have to touch Lester for one or two in the 1st inning. He usually struggles early, but if he escapes, he settles in and it could be a tough night.

You're right. No desire to see Papelfag on the mound.

You're also right with regard to Lester, and so important to take that Fenway crowd out of it early too. If the Rays can win two out of the three in Boston I'd say they'll be going to the WS.


Just another note about game two. I could not Believe Crawford getting picked off. What a stupid mental mistake. God, that really pissed me off. Lets hope they all learned something from that!!

Yeah, really bad timing...I saw a different angle of it, from ground level (camera looked to be in the 3rd base photo booth) and Crawford just happend to look down for a split second right as Beckett was wheeling and throwing. I'm sure the base coach was yelling "Back" but the response time hearing something is not nearly as quick as when you react to seeing it yourself.

99,000 other times, Beckett probably wouldn't be throwing at that exact moment when Crawford took his eye off him. But, that's why you NEVER take your eye off the pitcher!!!!

Not sure if you caught this where you live. Good Feel good story. Friggin stupid school!!

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/oct/12/cb...ound-young-fan/

The not-so-aptly named "Fenway faithful" heading for the exits in the 8th inning.

Love this Rays team. Just destroying the Sox pitching these last two games.

400 consecutive sellouts compared to what? Two for the Rays?!!

and this Red Sox fan still behind his computer screen at almost 2 AM. still hoping for a miracle.
so keep your "faith lesson" to someone else!

Ok, sensitive Sally.

In the Red Sox fans defense, they are diehard faithful in NE for the Sawx, just front runners for every other team. The Sawx have picked up a ton of bandwagon fans for sure, especially across the country, and my guess is they've priced out the real fans.

Bah...When a team tacks on 3 in the 8th inning to make it 8-1, EVERY stadium in the league would empty. The 7 train leaving Shea would've been jammed in the 7th inning.

Not wanting to watch your team get slaughtered doesn't make you any less of a fan, IMO.

I'm no fan of the Beantown teams, especially lately...And their fans have become as obnoxious as could be imagined...But the loyals are loyal, as much or more so than anywhere else. Don't downplay the role the Fenway crowd had in games 4 and 5 against the Yankees and '04...A HUGE lift for that team, gave them life...After leaving early in game 3 watching their team get pummeled as the Yanks put up 19. They will be back and boisterous tomorrow...It's what makes it probably the most electric gameday stadium in the bigs.

When you surrender a big lead early, and the leadoff batter makes an out in the first 6 innings, there's not all that much to get excited about.

Please tell me Tim Wakefield isn't starting tonight!

Regular season? Of course. LCS game? I disagree.



He'll either throw a two hit shutout or give up nine runs in the first 3 innings. Amazing how long that guy has been around. He'll probably pitch till he's 50.

Yup. Wakefield is getting the nod tonight. Sonnanstine for the Rays. He's a freakin bulldog.

To bad Lesters cutter was hangin over the plate last night, no? KA-BANG!!

Looks like the Sox want to extend the streak of giving up 3+ HRs per game.

You never know with Wake...
We'll see.

I realize it's moot, but let's play hypothetical NLCS.

The Mets ace, Santana, gives up 5 runs in the first three innings, and is yanked in the 5th. It's 5-0 until the 7th inning, when the Mets finally get a ground-out RBI to make it 5-1. Their leadoff batter failed to get on base in each of the first 6 innings. Wright, Beltran, and Delgado are 0-9 collectively. In the top of the 8th, the Phillies are threatening and the Mets' bullpen looks weary. Ryan Howard launches a 3-run HR to make it 8-1.

You're telling me the Shea Stadium "faithful" would sit around and watch the finish?? You're telling me the boos wouldn't be echoing off the new stadium?? That's crazy talk. It doesn't make anybody "less" of a fan, or not loyal...

At 5-1, I think 95% of the people in Fenway (or hypothetical Shea) stick around. At 8-1, when your team has stunk up the joint all day, I don't blame anyone for gathering their things.

Me? I'd probably stay. I stayed at Rich in the Houston game. But that's the way I roll. I don't think any of those Bills fans weren't "loyal" because they left that day. It was painful to watch.

Let me first say I am a life long Mets fan. I have been a fan since I was 8 years old(I am now 35) so I have seen my fair share of misery. My sister lives in NYC & I visit NYC & see about 10 games a year @ Shea. Even took the little guy to 4 games this year. The behavior support in that stadium this year was disgusting. The fans carried over that epic collapse last fall & just filled the stadium with so much negative energy this year. You could see it in the players. They were tight as drums knowing every little mistake was going to be booed merciless by the shea faithfull. The booing was out of control. It really made going to the games not very fun this year & I have been going to about 10 games a year since I was in my early 20s & that is the first year I could say that. I guess I compare the shea stadium atmosphere to the ralph, & there really is no comparison. At the Ralph, we have watched some bad football the last 10yrs but besides the scene toward Donahoe's end of his tenure, the vibe is still encouraging & positive towards the bills players from the stands. The Shea Stadium crowd this year & for parts of last year felt at least to me like they were entitled to a world series just because they brought in high priced free agents. It is really NYC arrogance defined at it's best. & in the end, the Mets had another season ending meltdown & I got to be honest, from this Mets fan's perspective, the Shea Stadium faithfull got exactly what it deserved.

Well the wrong Wake showed up!

I hope at least Matzu can win thursday so we can have our planned "baseball night" with my club saturday night for game 6!

Wow..I just read that the Rays made their first errors of the POSTSEASON last night

Dice-K, Beckett and Lester, there is still some hope with those three pitching. I remember 2004 real well

2004 they had games 4 & 5 at Fenway to steal the momentum back.

2007 they had games 6 & 7 at Fenway to put the Tribe away after Beckett dominated game 5.

2008....They have a disastrous bullpen, they have a guy going to the mound who has racked up 18 wins while routinely throwing 110 pitches thru 5.1 innings, they have a VERY average Josh Beckett, they have no Mike Lowell, they have a suddenly ancient David Ortiz, and they have no Manny Ramirez.

Cherish those memories. Boston has proven that you don't book any plans until you close them out...But the Rays were better over 162 games, and they are better now. I hope they put up 15 in game 5 as a final statement to the Fenway crowd about just who owns the AL East this season.

???
Come on the Red sox is not an old team... it's probably the youngest Red Sox team of the past decade... This team has a great future.

Jason Bay is probably the best Red Sox player (with Pedroia of course) of those playoffs...

They are young and talented...Except in RF, 3B, C, DH. SS they are young, but not so talented...Beating out Julio Lugo doesn't make Lowrie an All Star.

I think Ellsbury is legit but for whatever reason had a tough year...Hit around .260 all year until CATCHING FIRE the last month to get up around .280...Then taking the unexpected nosedive in the playoffs.



BoSox fans continue to go out of their way to stroke this guy. I think he's been adequate, no more no less. There is a HUGE difference in that lineup without Manny, obviously, as expected (that's not a knock on Bay- nobody in baseball can put up Manny's numbers.) I realize Ortiz is injured (or has been injured) and he is clearly approaching the downside, and without Manny behind him it should accellerate the statistical slide. That lineup with Manny is incredible, as suddenly Youk and Lowell and Drew are hitting down in the order, making things formidable. Their production used to be the "backbreaker" above what the main guys were providing. Now they have to be the cake, rather than just the icing.

Pedroia is awesome and deserves all the accolades he's getting. Youkilis defines "solid baseball professional." The rest of that lineup??? Not much to grab onto at the moment.

You say the Sox are young and talented....But the Rays are younger and have more talent. And in the AL East, you know the Yanks will always spend enough to be in the picture. The Red Sox rebuilt their franchise on solid pitching and the Ortiz/Ramirez punch. At the moment, pitching is suspect, Ortiz is slumping, and Ramirez is gone.

Getting Bay is nice consolation, but once the trade deadline passed, Manny was going to be auditioning for the $100 million contract that he wants. He'd be hitting in Boston like he's hitting in LA. If the goal is to win a World Series, this year and every year, they had a better chance with Ramirez, even if he'd be gone next season.

I think the Rays may have been a bit wide-eyed in game 1 at the realization that they were playing for a chance at the World Series. Since then, they have been the better team in every aspect.

Losing Mike Lowell didn't help much. Beckett obvioulsy isn't at his best either. Losing game two was a heartbreaker. I like the Rays and think they are a great team, but Boston isn't as bad as they looked last night

I'm fed up with that Manny blabla. As discussed before Bay has had better figures than Manny in about ALL stats since the trade. Bay is batting 406 in the playoffs !!! There is no "HUGE difference " without Manny, there is improvement! The problem of this season has been Ortiz and Beckett and now Lowell's injury not Manny's departure!

The problem is though Bay does not strike the fear of god in pitchers like Man Ram did. I do not care what he is hitting, he does not protect the lineup the same way Ramirez did all these years. If you understood the game of baseball instead of just pulling up some stats you would get this concept. I felt going into the series, that the outcome depended on if Beckett would be effective. I did not count on Lester getting lit up in game 3. Becket obviously is not a 100% & I would not be surprised if the Rays close this thing out thursday.

Maybe they 'll fear him if Francona was batting him 3rd or 4th instead of 5th or 6th like he does. I can't understand why Bay is batting after Youki (and sometimes) Drew....

You might want to check your math.

Regular season, after the trade:
Manny: 53 GP, 14 2B 17 HR, 35 BB, 38 SO, .396 avg., .489 OBP, .743 SLG, 1.296 OPS
Jason: 49 GP, 12 2B, 9 HR, 22 BB, 37 SO, .293 avg., .370 OBP, .527 SLG, .897 OPS


Postseason:
Manny: 7 GP, 11-22, 2 2B, 3 HR, 9 RBI, 10 BB, 4 SO, .500 avg., .656 OBP, 1.000, SLG, 1.656 OPS
Jason: 8 GP, 13-32, 3 2B, 3 HR, 9 RBI, 5 BB, 8 SO, .406 avg., .486 OBP, .781, SLG 1.268 OPS

Is Bay playing well? Absolutely. Are the Red Sox better off without Manny's distractions? Sure are. Not taking anything away from what Bay is doing, but Manny is playing very good baseball right now, and his numbers are better in almost every category.

Or maybe Bay is not a 3rd or 4th hitter & never will be.

Yup.

Great graphic by Fox during tonights' game:

Indians -- no postseason appearances 1955-94 (!); With Manny: 5 appearances, 2 pennants
Red Sox -- no WS titles 1919-2003; With Manny: 2 in 4 years
Dodgers -- no postseason series wins since 1988; With Manny: Beat top seeded Cubs in NLDS


This guy is the Flutie of baseball. All he does is win.

Please compare things comparable... like Manny stats with the Sox before the trade... The NL is batting paradise those days!!

well i wonder how many more runs the Sox 'd have scored with Bay batting third since the beginning of those Series...

Yeah .... all i know is that his season is over and not Bay's or the Sox's... We'll see.

Yeah, that chump was only hitting .299 with 20 HRs.

Do you REALLY think Manny (one of the best clutch/postseason hitters ever) would've dogged it in Aug/Sept/Oct if he was still with Boston??? NO WAY! It's the same reason he was bringing the noise in LA. He's auditioning for a contract, and he (and Boras) have dreams of 4 years/$100 million. That's not going to happen, but certainly $60-$80 million is probable. Even if he was unhappy in Boston, he would've known that they weren't going to pick up the club option for '09, and he would've been mashing. He is a flake, but he can hit.

Boston fans loved him when he was winning World Series and LCS MVPs. Suddenly, him goofing off in the outfield and loafing ground balls became a problem??? He's been doing that since 2001!!!

They are a better hitting team with Manny, and they have a better chance of winning with Manny. If he was such a horrible distraction, how come they've made the playoffs just about every year? How come they won two titles? How come the Dodgers won their division and swept the Cubs with him?

Jason Bay is Jason Bay, he's a fine ballplayer, and like I mentioned before, it's a nice consolation to be able to acquire a replacement for Manny, instead of losing him after the season and getting nothing. But Boston has money, they could've signed/acquired anybody they wanted to this offseason, while trying to give themselves the best chance to win another title with Manny.

Like I said earlier, Manny would've produced, he always has. His production makes the contributions of guys like Kotsay and Drew and Youkilis gravy, rather than vital.

Got it. When the facts don't fit your previously inaccurate statements, change the focus of the debate.

But since you asked:

Manny with the Sox: 100 GP, 20 HR, 68 RBI, .299 AVG, .398 OBP, .529 SLG, .927 OPS
Jason with the Sox: 49 GP, 9 HR, 37 RBI, .293 AVG., .370 OBP, .527 SLG, .897 OPS

NL STATS:
MANNY: 53 GP, 17 HR, 53 RBI, .396/.489/.743/1.232
JASON: 106 GP, 22 HR, 64 RBI, .282/.375/.519/.894

So it looks to me like Manny, in half the time in the NL, destroyed most of Jason's NL numbers, and maintained equal or better numbers in pretty much every category with the Sox.

No, no. You're not getting it (typical American). You have to compare Bay's stats from his ESPN highlights against Manny's stats from Boston games played on the road on Tuesday afternoons. Bay blows him away.

Ah, now I see. I'll get to work on that, although I'm not sure where I'll find those stats....

Game.

Set.

Match.


Well done...

Back to baseball:


BJ Upton....holy crap, another crushed HR. This guy has been unbelievable.

Upton and Longoria, future stars before this week, have become stars. They both just hit the lotto.

Why the hell would they take Kazmir out of the game? He was cruising. You could see that Ortiz HR coming a mile away.

Still two at bats left


JD Drew!!!!!

Staying with Wheeler too long. Clearly got rattled after the Drew HR.