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olivier in france
Hello guys!

It looks like the US presidential race 's gonna be very interesting this time. Both primaries should be hard fought. But well from here in France ut's tough to have good information about the candidates.
So well i hope you can help me... Can you give me in a few words a description of each candidate, how they are positioned compared to their competitors.
Thanks in advance it'll help me understand a lot better what's going on in american politics ...
molson_golden2002
QUOTE(olivier in france @ Apr 6 2007, 04:02 AM) [snapback]964650[/snapback]
Hello guys!

It looks like the US presidential race 's gonna be very interesting this time. Both primaries should be hard fought. But well from here in France ut's tough to have good information about the candidates.
So well i hope you can help me... Can you give me in a few words a description of each candidate, how they are positioned compared to their competitors.
Thanks in advance it'll help me understand a lot better what's going on in american politics ...

From what I understand, Bush's people are working with Mitt Romney. Fox news looks like they are throwing their weight behind him as far as I can tell. I don't watch much of Fox, but seems like whenever I turn them on they are promoting Romney. McCain is dead, as far as I'm concerned. It really looks like Rudy G. just has too much baggage, but he is a fighter and survivor, so who knows.

If I had to say, it would be Mitt Romney who wins the nomination for GOP.

The Dem race looks close, Hilary and Obama with Edwards still hanging in there.

That's all I know
RkFast
Olivier...whats the story with the FRENCH Presidential race?
olivier in france
QUOTE(molson_golden2002 @ Apr 6 2007, 08:38 AM) [snapback]964735[/snapback]
From what I understand, Bush's people are working with Mitt Romney. Fox news looks like they are throwing their weight behind him as far as I can tell. I don't watch much of Fox, but seems like whenever I turn them on they are promoting Romney. McCain is dead, as far as I'm concerned. It really looks like Rudy G. just has too much baggage, but he is a fighter and survivor, so who knows.

If I had to say, it would be Mitt Romney who wins the nomination for GOP.

The Dem race looks close, Hilary and Obama with Edwards still hanging in there.

That's all I know



Romney is the mormon from Mass, isn't he?

As Mass is not really Fox News country how this guy has been able to be elected governor of liberal Mass? Is he very talented or has Mass changed that much?

molson_golden2002
QUOTE(olivier in france @ Apr 6 2007, 10:15 AM) [snapback]964787[/snapback]
Romney is the mormon from Mass, isn't he?

As Mass is not really Fox News country how this guy has been able to be elected governor of liberal Mass? Is he very talented or has Mass changed that much?

Yes. One problem for Romney is his conversion to hard rock Conservativism. He is flip flopping from a liberal on social issues to a Conservative. So he won in Mass as a fiscal Con and a lib on social policy. He might get away with flip flopping because his opposition is weak in McCain and Rudy G. has the same problem on the same issues.
olivier in france
QUOTE(RkFast @ Apr 6 2007, 08:45 AM) [snapback]964746[/snapback]
Olivier...whats the story with the FRENCH Presidential race?



Tough question!!
This race is very interesting and the end very hard to forecast...
So far it looks like Sarkosy has the best chances but he's seen by many as a hard line rightist. The moderates are trying with Bayrou to propose an alternative to the Socialists and Gaullists that have ruled the country for the last 30 years while the Socialists are trying to look more modern with the pretty Segolène while the program looks like their usual BS... and with Le Pen real potential still a mystery, who really knows?!!
RuntheDamnBall
QUOTE(olivier in france @ Apr 6 2007, 10:15 AM) [snapback]964787[/snapback]
Romney is the mormon from Mass, isn't he?

As Mass is not really Fox News country how this guy has been able to be elected governor of liberal Mass? Is he very talented or has Mass changed that much?

He's shifted his positions with the wind to appeal to Mass including on abortion and gay rights, and now is taking a more right-wing line on them.

Religious voters will accept him though, because in this instance it isn't flip-flopping, this is "seeing the light." dry.gif
olivier in france
QUOTE(molson_golden2002 @ Apr 6 2007, 09:20 AM) [snapback]964798[/snapback]
Yes. One problem for Romney is his conversion to hard rock Conservativism. He is flip flopping from a liberal on social issues to a Conservative. So he won in Mass as a fiscal Con and a lib on social policy. He might get away with flip flopping because his opposition is weak in McCain and Rudy G. has the same problem on the same issues.


Do you consider Mc Cain as the more moderate candidate for the GOP?

And what if at the end the americans have to choose between the all N York: Clinton -RudyG-Bloomberg trio?!!...

Do you think a third party candidate has a chance this time?
UConn James
QUOTE(RuntheDamnBall @ Apr 6 2007, 10:24 AM) [snapback]964803[/snapback]
He's shifted his positions with the wind to appeal to Mass including on abortion and gay rights, and now is taking a more right-wing line on them.

Religious voters will accept him though, because in this instance it isn't flip-flopping, this is "seeing the light." dry.gif


Just to clarify, he has not shifted positions on gay marriage/union. The allowance for it was 'legislated from the bench' and Romney has been fighting it from the start. Didn't want out-of-state gay couples married... wanted it put to a referendum (where it would likely fail) rather than it going to the legislature (where it has a chance).

He has shifted on abortion and gun rights. And I would hope he shifts his stance on alternative energy (he was opposed to the wind power project).

QUOTE(RkFast @ Apr 6 2007, 09:45 AM) [snapback]964746[/snapback]
Olivier...whats the story with the FRENCH Presidential race?


Don't ask --- you're better off. French politics is a total clusterf--k.
PastaJoe
QUOTE(olivier in france @ Apr 6 2007, 10:27 AM) [snapback]964811[/snapback]
Do you consider Mc Cain as the more moderate candidate for the GOP?

And what if at the end the americans have to choose between the all N York: Clinton -RudyG-Bloomberg trio?!!...

Do you think a third party candidate has a chance this time?


McCain has moved to the right since 2000, and is now aligned with Bush's foreign policy, which is a reason why his poll numbers went down. There isn't really a true "moderate" running for the GOP, but based on his previous socal positions on abortion, gay rights, and gun control, RudyG is the closest. Whether he would actually do anything on those issues remains to be seen.

I don't think a 3rd party candidate has a chance, the 2 major parties have too much control and influence over the process. In a 3 way race I think Bloomberg and RudyG would hurt each other and help Clinton.
olivier in france
QUOTE(PastaJoe @ Apr 6 2007, 10:29 AM) [snapback]964901[/snapback]
McCain has moved to the right since 2000, and is now aligned with Bush's foreign policy, which is a reason why his poll numbers went down. There isn't really a true "moderate" running for the GOP, but based on his previous socal positions on abortion, gay rights, and gun control, RudyG is the closest. Whether he would actually do anything on those issues remains to be seen.

I don't think a 3rd party candidate has a chance, the 2 major parties have too much control and influence over the process. In a 3 way race I think Bloomberg and RudyG would hurt each other and help Clinton.


But do you think in today's America that if the GOP primaries are won by a conservative he 'll have a chance to be elected as President?! It looks to me that the GOP 'd shoot itself in the foot if it does not give its ticket to a moderate... Or maybe they hope the democrats will make the same mistake and propose a "too liberal" candidate...
PastaJoe
QUOTE(olivier in france @ Apr 6 2007, 11:37 AM) [snapback]964916[/snapback]
But do you think in today's America that if the GOP primaries are won by a conservative he 'll have a chance to be elected as President?! It looks to me that the GOP 'd shoot itself in the foot if it does not give its ticket to a moderate... Or maybe they hope the democrats will make the same mistake and propose a "too liberal" candidate...


The Republicans have created a bit of a problem for themselves. If they pick a conservative candidate they can lose moderates and independents in the general election. If they pick a social moderate they could lose their evangelical base who usually votes in large numbers. It's going to be a difficult tightrope act for them, especially if they continue to back Bush's Iraq policy.
erynthered
Just wondering. Why are all you lefties talking about the Republican candidates? I, for one would love to hear you all talk about your list of hopefuls. After all, I would think you'd know more about your party candidates then the Republican party candidates. Because, that's where your votes going to go, right?

See a "D" pull the lever. biggrin.gif


Johnny Coli
QUOTE(olivier in france @ Apr 6 2007, 10:15 AM) [snapback]964787[/snapback]
Romney is the mormon from Mass, isn't he?

As Mass is not really Fox News country how this guy has been able to be elected governor of liberal Mass? Is he very talented or has Mass changed that much?

Romney's win in Mass is actually a really good story. It was an excellent example of political opportunism.

The previous Governor, a left-of-center-on-the-issues member of the GOP, left for an ambasador's position, leaving the state in the hands of his Lieutentant Gov, Jane Swift. Swift was an easy target for the media, as she made several political blunders in her short time occupying the corner office in Boston. Despite that, the GOP was going to run her as their nominee going into the next election. Although she wasn't really that attractive as a candidate, the GOP stuck with her because she was the defacto incumbent. Swift's approval numbers were abyssmal, and the Dems thought she would easliy be picked off. Thus, they ran a career state politician, Shannon O'Brien, who was the daughter of a well-loved carreer state politician, thinking it would be a cake-walk. Romney, coming off the Salt Lake City Olympics (which he was credited with for saving) swooped back into Mass, but promised the Swift campaign that he would not get in her way. Of course, that was a complete lie because he entered the race a short time later, but too late for the Dems to find a more attractive candidate of their own. Romney easily crushed O'Brien in a series of debates, and won the election on a pseudo-liberal platform heavy on all the buzz-words. Once in office, he re-emerged as the Romney you see today. His tenure in Mass (when he was here...he's literally been on the presidential camapign trail for a long time) was marked by bitter feuds with the state legislature over just about everything. The GOP actually lost seats in MA becasue of Romney...he became very aggressive in wanting to get more GOP seats in the state legislature...he failed miserably. If he would have run this past election he would have been soundly destroyed. He hates us as much, if not more than we hate him.
molson_golden2002
QUOTE(erynthered @ Apr 6 2007, 12:43 PM) [snapback]965021[/snapback]
Just wondering. Why are all you lefties talking about the Republican candidates? I, for one would love to hear you all talk about your list of hopefuls. After all, I would think you'd know more about your party candidates then the Republican party candidates. Because, that's where your votes going to go, right?

See a "D" pull the lever. biggrin.gif

The GOP race is more interesting. The candidates have to run hard right campaigns, pro war, hate gays, hate modern society really, and will then have to flip flop back to moderates to try and win the general election, all with Iraq exploding in the background. McCain is already looking like a complete fool, if not an insane maniac who has trouble talking anymore, while the others don't really seem to know what to do. I can't wait till the GOP candidates starts attacking each other. biggrin.gif Which candidate will be seen as weak on gays? Which one doesn't have the respect of the military? Which candidate will work hardest to eliminate entire federal government? Which one will come up with the next new plan to fix Iraq?

Should be good fun!
erynthered
QUOTE(molson_golden2002 @ Apr 6 2007, 02:14 PM) [snapback]965166[/snapback]
The Dem race is more interesting. The candidates have to run hard left campaigns, pro defete, love gays, hate wealthy people, pro socialism, really, and will then have to flip flop back to moderates to try and win the general election, all with Iraq exploding in the background. Hilary is already looking like a complete fool, if not an insane maniac who has trouble talking anymore, while the others don't really seem to know what to do. I can't wait till the Dem candidates starts attacking each other. biggrin.gif Which candidate will be seen as weak on gays? Which one doesn't have the respect of the military? Which candidate will work hardest to eliminate entire federal government? Which one will come up with the next new plan to fix Iraq?

Should be good fun!


It could almost be..............

Fixed it for you.


And you're right, it should be fun. tongue.gif
Chef Jim
Oliver, you really don't want to know. Just back away. Head to your closest bistro and order some cassoulet and a bottle of Burgundy. Life is much better that way.
ieatcrayonz
QUOTE(olivier in france @ Apr 6 2007, 03:02 AM) [snapback]964650[/snapback]
Hello guys!

It looks like the US presidential race 's gonna be very interesting this time. Both primaries should be hard fought. But well from here in France ut's tough to have good information about the candidates.
So well i hope you can help me... Can you give me in a few words a description of each candidate, how they are positioned compared to their competitors.
Thanks in advance it'll help me understand a lot better what's going on in american politics ...

The best guy so far is a guy named Tancredo. I'm not sure where he is from and he doesn't have much money but he wants to build a border fence between the Us an Mexico and another one between the US and Canada. This is a great idea and may help him move up the polls.
/dev/null
QUOTE(olivier in france @ Apr 6 2007, 04:02 AM) [snapback]964650[/snapback]
Hello guys!

It looks like the US presidential race 's gonna be very interesting this time. Both primaries should be hard fought. But well from here in France ut's tough to have good information about the candidates.
So well i hope you can help me... Can you give me in a few words a description of each candidate, how they are positioned compared to their competitors.
Thanks in advance it'll help me understand a lot better what's going on in american politics ...


Right now the front runners are:
Republican:
A former Vietnam POW who pretends to be a maverick but is the "establishment" candidate
A liberal running around reminding everyone what he did on 9/11
A Mormon from Massachussettes trying to cozy up with Christian conservatives

Democrat:
A former first lady living off her husband's name
A black guy that "White Guilt" liberals are fawning over
A pretty boy trial lawyer

Other potential candidates:
Democrat - Some fat guy running around with a slideshow telling everyone how D ph34r.gifph34r.gif MED!!! we are
Republican - The DA from Law & Order
SilverNRed
QUOTE(olivier in france @ Apr 6 2007, 03:02 AM) [snapback]964650[/snapback]
It looks like the US presidential race 's gonna be very interesting this time.

Yeah, if by "very interesting" you mean "America is f*cked."

It's probably going to come down to Hillary Clinton shouting ONE. WORD. AT. A. TIME. DURING. SPEE. CHES. FOR. EM. PHA. SIS. and Rudy Guiliani trying to figure out if he's a conservative or not. Maybe Hillary will whip out that horrible Southern accent she was trying to pass off again.

I guess at this point I'd take Fred Thompson or Obama. Both could be dumb as rocks but at least they both know how to deliver a speech and that'd be a nice change of pace at least.
olivier in france
QUOTE(ieatcrayonz @ Apr 6 2007, 02:14 PM) [snapback]965266[/snapback]
The best guy so far is a guy named Tancredo. I'm not sure where he is from and he doesn't have much money but he wants to build a border fence between the Us an Mexico and another one between the US and Canada. This is a great idea and may help him move up the polls.


Did not know Le Pen's son was american!
olivier in france
QUOTE(SilverNRed @ Apr 6 2007, 08:29 PM) [snapback]965643[/snapback]
Yeah, if by "very interesting" you mean "America is f*cked."

It's probably going to come down to Hillary Clinton shouting ONE. WORD. AT. A. TIME. DURING. SPEE. CHES. FOR. EM. PHA. SIS. and Rudy Guiliani trying to figure out if he's a conservative or not. Maybe Hillary will whip out that horrible Southern accent she was trying to pass off again.

I guess at this point I'd take Fred Thompson or Obama. Both could be dumb as rocks but at least they both know how to deliver a speech and that'd be a nice change of pace at least.


who is that Fred Thompson you are all talking about?
olivier in france
QUOTE(/dev/null @ Apr 6 2007, 05:50 PM) [snapback]965516[/snapback]
Democrat - Some fat guy running around with a slideshow telling everyone how D ph34r.gifph34r.gif MED!!! we are



looks a lot more like a republican way of getting votes to me!!!
molson_golden2002
QUOTE(olivier in france @ Apr 7 2007, 04:16 AM) [snapback]965806[/snapback]
looks a lot more like a republican way of getting votes to me!!!

Got terror alerts?
Bill from NYC
Olivier, the dems are a group of idiots as usual, perhaps even worse than the "9 Ninnies" who competed for the 04 nomination.
The repubs are a confused mess. My daughter is more conservative than me, yet she supports Rudy. I am all about Tom Tancredo, because he is the only candidate who is against our country being invaded by illegal aliens.

I wish you could shed some light upon us as to the effect of France being invaded by illegals in terms of the cost to taxpayers, impact on services, and of course the riots. Is the average French Citizen (not the ultra-rich) happy to have illegal aliens in their country?

Thanks for anything you can tell us.
molson_golden2002
QUOTE(erynthered @ Apr 6 2007, 02:20 PM) [snapback]965176[/snapback]
It could almost be..............

Fixed it for you.
And you're right, it should be fun. tongue.gif

The only problem is, that the majority of Americans agree with the Democrats on the most important issues of the day. The Republicans have to first appeal to their savage base and THEN to the saner sections of the nation. Democrats will not have to do so many twists, turns, somersaults and flip flopping as Republicans will. That's why, IMO, the Republican race is so much more fun to watch.
olivier in france
QUOTE(Bill from NYC @ Apr 7 2007, 09:46 AM) [snapback]965881[/snapback]
Olivier, the dems are a group of idiots as usual, perhaps even worse than the "9 Ninnies" who competed for the 04 nomination.
The repubs are a confused mess. My daughter is more conservative than me, yet she supports Rudy. I am all about Tom Tancredo, because he is the only candidate who is against our country being invaded by illegal aliens.

I wish you could shed some light upon us as to the effect of France being invaded by illegals in terms of the cost to taxpayers, impact on services, and of course the riots. Is the average French Citizen (not the ultra-rich) happy to have illegal aliens in their country?

Thanks for anything you can tell us.


invaded? well looks like we have not the same view on those matters. First you have to know last year's riots were not made by recent immigrants or illegal aliens. Most of the rioters were born in France sons of immigrants who can not find any job or become part of french "main stream" society because of high unemployement, rampant racism and laxist politics that have let entire towns and districts become chaotic lawless zones where even the police never enters. Illegal aliens is a marginal issue in France as their impact is low compared to the impact of the millions of french citizens that are living jobless with welfare money. The main problem of France is to put those people back at work.
Bill from NYC
QUOTE(olivier in france @ Apr 7 2007, 12:57 PM) [snapback]965996[/snapback]
invaded? well looks like we have not the same view on those matters. First you have to know last year's riots were not made by recent immigrants or illegal aliens. Most of the rioters were born in France sons of immigrants who can not find any job or become part of french "main stream" society because of high unemployement, rampant racism and laxist politics that have let entire towns and districts become chaotic lawless zones where even the police never enters. Illegal aliens is a marginal issue in France as their impact is low compared to the impact of the millions of french citizens that are living jobless with welfare money. The main problem of France is to put those people back at work.


Are the "sons of immigrants" being displaced by newly arriving immigrants who are willing to work for even less? This is one of my biggest problems with illegal aliens. If we simply make citizens of the invaders, what is to stop the next wave? This has already happened in America. I am guessing that it happened in France as well.

Also, do you think that the American "boycott" of French products had ANY impact at all with regard to the unemployment, even if it was ever so slight?
Chef Jim
QUOTE(molson_golden2002 @ Apr 7 2007, 07:32 AM) [snapback]965924[/snapback]
The only problem is, that the majority of Americans agree with the Democrats on the most important issues of the day.


Really? Issues such as?
BlueFire
QUOTE(Chef Jim @ Apr 8 2007, 07:13 PM) [snapback]966804[/snapback]
Really? Issues such as?


Well, Democrats do have a large Party ID advantage at the present moment.
olivier in france
QUOTE(Bill from NYC @ Apr 8 2007, 05:08 PM) [snapback]966716[/snapback]
Are the "sons of immigrants" being displaced by newly arriving immigrants who are willing to work for even less? This is one of my biggest problems with illegal aliens. If we simply make citizens of the invaders, what is to stop the next wave? This has already happened in America. I am guessing that it happened in France as well.

Also, do you think that the American "boycott" of French products had ANY impact at all with regard to the unemployment, even if it was ever so slight?


Absolutly not. In fact compared with the last decades the arrivals of new immigrants are very marginal in France. Immigrants go where there's actually available jobs and in Europe it is currently in the UK or in Spain.

The "boycott",!! What a joke! American imports are always been very low for the French economy and this boycott did not change anything. The problem of the french economy is mainly a problem of the cost of labor that is one of the highest in the world especially since the desastrous 35 hours labor week law voted by the socialists in 2000. Well and the strong euro is a problem for about 5 years but it's an european issue.
PastaJoe
QUOTE(olivier in france @ Apr 9 2007, 04:49 AM) [snapback]966949[/snapback]
The "boycott",!! What a joke! American imports are always been very low for the French economy and this boycott did not change anything.


The conservatives that wanted Americans to stop importing French Fries and French Toast will be disappointed to hear that.
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