The Big Ten was down this year..Michigan is a damn good football team...but I give the nod to the Gators...going through the SEC with 1 loss is VERY tough to do....
Tough call...but I say Florida
One reason courtesy of FOX Sports:
Schedule, schedule, schedule. Going into the final weekend of the season, the Gators played the nation's toughest schedule, and it wasn't even close. The cumulative opposition winning percentage was 0.643. Number two Cincinnati was 0.622. That might not seem like much, but it is.
Your opinions?
Full Version: The National Title game SHOULD be...
Fla has the better wins overall. Mich. has the better loss. However, Fla. arguably would've beaten Auburn if not for a highly questionable fumble call. OTOH, they were pretty lucky to beat a couple marginal teams. I don't really buy into the "Mich already had their chance" argument, because it's not their fault they had to play OSU. They were pretty lucky to only lose that game by 3 though w/ a +3 turnover table.
Tough call indeed. I don't really have a problem either way, which doesn't make for fun internet banter.
Tough call indeed. I don't really have a problem either way, which doesn't make for fun internet banter.
Both deserve their shot and once again the BCS proves its worth.
QUOTE(BuffOrange @ Dec 3 2006, 03:32 AM)
I don't really buy into the "Mich already had their chance" argument, because it's not their fault they had to play OSU.
I do. Giving Michigan a free pass for their loss because it was OSU is b.s. Florida's only loss was to a highly ranked team too -- and they played a tougher schedule AND won their conference. That should count for something. Even though I hate FLA I think they deserve it over the 'wild card' Wolverines.
QUOTE(KD in CT @ Dec 3 2006, 11:25 AM)
I do. Giving Michigan a free pass for their loss because it was OSU is b.s. Florida's only loss was to a highly ranked team too -- and they played a tougher schedule AND won their conference. That should count for something. Even though I hate FLA I think they deserve it over the 'wild card' Wolverines.
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Yes, clearly I want to give Mich. "a free pass".
If Auburn had gone undefeated instead of OSU you'd vote Michigan then? Seems like a lame criteria.
No, the national title game should be:
Boise State plays Ohio State
Florida plays Michigan
Winner of both games play each other for the national championship.
Boise State plays Ohio State
Florida plays Michigan
Winner of both games play each other for the national championship.
QUOTE(DonteWhitner @ Dec 3 2006, 01:44 AM)
The Big Ten was down this year..Michigan is a damn good football team...but I give the nod to the Gators...going through the SEC with 1 loss is VERY tough to do....
Tough call...but I say Florida
One reason courtesy of FOX Sports:
Schedule, schedule, schedule. Going into the final weekend of the season, the Gators played the nation's toughest schedule, and it wasn't even close. The cumulative opposition winning percentage was 0.643. Number two Cincinnati was 0.622. That might not seem like much, but it is.
Your opinions?
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Tough call...but I say Florida
One reason courtesy of FOX Sports:
Schedule, schedule, schedule. Going into the final weekend of the season, the Gators played the nation's toughest schedule, and it wasn't even close. The cumulative opposition winning percentage was 0.643. Number two Cincinnati was 0.622. That might not seem like much, but it is.
Your opinions?
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Yah florida played a very tough schedule. They had 2 grueling games against 1-AA opponents. not to mention they won games against SC and FSU by backing into the victories ass first.
QUOTE
DonteWhitner Posted Today, 01:44 AM
The Big Ten was down this year..Michigan is a damn good football team...but I give the nod to the Gators...going through the SEC with 1 loss is VERY tough to do....
Tough call...but I say Florida
One reason courtesy of FOX Sports:
Schedule, schedule, schedule. Going into the final weekend of the season, the Gators played the nation's toughest schedule, and it wasn't even close. The cumulative opposition winning percentage was 0.643. Number two Cincinnati was 0.622. That might not seem like much, but it is.
Your opinions?
The Big Ten was down this year..Michigan is a damn good football team...but I give the nod to the Gators...going through the SEC with 1 loss is VERY tough to do....
Tough call...but I say Florida
One reason courtesy of FOX Sports:
Schedule, schedule, schedule. Going into the final weekend of the season, the Gators played the nation's toughest schedule, and it wasn't even close. The cumulative opposition winning percentage was 0.643. Number two Cincinnati was 0.622. That might not seem like much, but it is.
Your opinions?
Would that schedule that FOX Sports is touting include the non-conference games against Central Florida & Western Carolina?
Yes Michigan played Miami(Ohio) & Ball State, and the SEC's own Vanderbilt, and neither of them are Division 1-AA. Not to mention that Michigan went into South Bend and destroyed Notre Dame.
QUOTE
BuffOrange Posted Today, 02:32 AM
Fla has the better wins overall. Mich. has the better loss. However, Fla. arguably would've beaten Auburn if not for a highly questionable fumble call. OTOH, they were pretty lucky to beat a couple marginal teams. I don't really buy into the "Mich already had their chance" argument, because it's not their fault they had to play OSU. They were pretty lucky to only lose that game by 3 though w/ a +3 turnover table.
Tough call indeed. I don't really have a problem either way, which doesn't make for fun internet banter.
Fla has the better wins overall. Mich. has the better loss. However, Fla. arguably would've beaten Auburn if not for a highly questionable fumble call. OTOH, they were pretty lucky to beat a couple marginal teams. I don't really buy into the "Mich already had their chance" argument, because it's not their fault they had to play OSU. They were pretty lucky to only lose that game by 3 though w/ a +3 turnover table.
Tough call indeed. I don't really have a problem either way, which doesn't make for fun internet banter.
Yes you can argue about the fumble against Auburn, but you can also argue that LSU would have beaten Florida had they not fumbled on the Gators 1 yard line.
My point is, turnovers, no matter how much of a fluke they can be at times, do happen and is a part of the game.
I give Florida a lot of credit, they are one helluva good team, and winning the SEC is no easy feat.
I just do not think the Gators are the better match-up for the Buckeyes than the Wolverines would have been.
I am hoping the Wolverines destroy the Trojans, and the Buckeyes trounce the Gators, then we will see how right the BCS was.
IMO Michigan received the biggest screw job than all the orgies of the Roman Empire combined.
you BCS.
QUOTE(Ramius @ Dec 3 2006, 10:55 PM)
Yah florida played a very tough schedule. They had 2 grueling games against 1-AA opponents. not to mention they won games against SC and FSU by backing into the victories ass first.
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I agree 100%.
QUOTE(IBTG81 @ Dec 4 2006, 12:22 AM)
I agree 100%.
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What a shock this comment is from a Rutgers fan who probably does not remember anything about the RU program since Ray Lucas
Florida deserved it, all bitterness aside from the FSU fans
QUOTE
Yes you can argue about the fumble against Auburn, but you can also argue that LSU would have beaten Florida had they not fumbled on the Gators 1 yard line.
My point is, turnovers, no matter how much of a fluke they can be at times, do happen and is a part of the game.
My point is, turnovers, no matter how much of a fluke they can be at times, do happen and is a part of the game.
No question there is a degree of luck involved in a lot of plays (especially fumbles). I don't think it's fair to equate the other team screwing up with a bad officiating job though. It's also a reach to say LSU would've won the game anyway.
QUOTE(Ramius @ Dec 3 2006, 10:55 PM)
Yah florida played a very tough schedule. They had 2 grueling games against 1-AA opponents. not to mention they won games against SC and FSU by backing into the victories ass first.
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2 1-AA opponents??
Florida played one 1AA opponent (Western Carolina)...I do not see another 1AA matchup on the schedule.
Ok so Florida played a 1AA team...Flordia went 12-1 and UM went 11-1 so IMO to use that 1AA game against Florida is useless in an argument.
QUOTE(DonteWhitner @ Dec 4 2006, 01:03 AM)
What a shock this comment is from a Rutgers fan who probably does not remember anything about the RU program since Ray Lucas
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Did you attend the BlueFire school of typing, or the Holcomb's Arm school of logic?
IMO, Florida has earned it. My thinking, flawed as it may be, is that the national champion should be able to win their own conference.
QUOTE(smokinandjokin @ Dec 4 2006, 08:31 AM)
IMO, Florida has earned it. My thinking, flawed as it may be, is that the national champion should be able to win their own conference.
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Ok, they why did oklahoma(i believe) get a shot at the national title a few years ago, AFTER losing their conference title game?
And i was wrong about UF and 2 1-AA opponents. They only had 1 this season. I confused it with last season when they played the SouthEast university for paraplegics.
QUOTE(Ramius @ Dec 4 2006, 10:50 AM)
Ok, they why did oklahoma(i believe) get a shot at the national title a few years ago, AFTER losing their conference title game?
And i was wrong about UF and 2 1-AA opponents. They only had 1 this season. I confused it with last season when they played the SouthEast university for paraplegics.
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And i was wrong about UF and 2 1-AA opponents. They only had 1 this season. I confused it with last season when they played the SouthEast university for paraplegics.
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I agree, that Oklahoma b.j. was a mess in '03. Not only did they lose their conference title game, it wasn't even close. K-State won 35-7 or something like that. They were such a distant #1 before that game that they fell only to #2 in the BCS. Nebraska did the same thing in '01, getting crushed by Colorado in the Big 12 final 62-30something, but holding at #2 in the BCS. Both OU and UN proceded to play like total dogschit and lost in the finals.
USC finished the regular season #1 in both the AP and Coaches polls in '03 but was #3 in the BCS behind LSU and OU.
QUOTE(smokinandjokin @ Dec 4 2006, 11:42 AM)
I agree, that Oklahoma b.j. was a mess in '03. Not only did they lose their conference title game, it wasn't even close. K-State won 35-7 or something like that. They were such a distant #1 before that game that they fell only to #2 in the BCS. Nebraska did the same thing in '01, getting crushed by Colorado in the Big 12 final 62-30something, but holding at #2 in the BCS. Both OU and UN proceded to play like total dogschit and lost in the finals.
USC finished the regular season #1 in both the AP and Coaches polls in '03 but was #3 in the BCS behind LSU and OU.
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USC finished the regular season #1 in both the AP and Coaches polls in '03 but was #3 in the BCS behind LSU and OU.
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Once again, the BCMess rears its ugly head.
QUOTE(IBTG81 @ Dec 4 2006, 01:27 AM)
Did you attend the BlueFire school of typing, or the Holcomb's Arm school of logic?
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Your inability to stick up for yourself after my comment futher proves that I am probably correct.
Were you attending RU games when Jacki Crooks was in the RU backfield? I was.
1/1 says NO for you.
QUOTE(DonteWhitner @ Dec 4 2006, 07:45 PM)
Your inability to stick up for yourself after my comment futher proves that I am probably correct.
Were you attending RU games when Jacki Crooks was in the RU backfield? I was.
1/1 says NO for you.
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Were you attending RU games when Jacki Crooks was in the RU backfield? I was.
1/1 says NO for you.
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Next he'll start trying to talk about how your football team sucks, as if it had anything to do with how good Rutgers' is.
QUOTE
BuffOrange Posted Today, 01:07 AM
QUOTE
Yes you can argue about the fumble against Auburn, but you can also argue that LSU would have beaten Florida had they not fumbled on the Gators 1 yard line.
My point is, turnovers, no matter how much of a fluke they can be at times, do happen and is a part of the game.
No question there is a degree of luck involved in a lot of plays (especially fumbles). I don't think it's fair to equate the other team screwing up with a bad officiating job though. It's also a reach to say LSU would've won the game anyway.
QUOTE
Yes you can argue about the fumble against Auburn, but you can also argue that LSU would have beaten Florida had they not fumbled on the Gators 1 yard line.
My point is, turnovers, no matter how much of a fluke they can be at times, do happen and is a part of the game.
No question there is a degree of luck involved in a lot of plays (especially fumbles). I don't think it's fair to equate the other team screwing up with a bad officiating job though. It's also a reach to say LSU would've won the game anyway.
True the officials did screw up in the Auburn game.I'm not saying that LSU would definitely had beaten Florida, but if you saw that game, LSU had their chances to win, but turnovers killed them. South Carolina, Tennessee, & Florida State had opportunities to beat the Gators also, but they were unsuccessful.
QUOTE
DonteWhitner Posted Today, 01:12 AM
QUOTE(Ramius @ Dec 3 2006, 10:55 PM)
Yah florida played a very tough schedule. They had 2 grueling games against 1-AA opponents. not to mention they won games against SC and FSU by backing into the victories ass first.
2 1-AA opponents??
Florida played one 1AA opponent (Western Carolina)...I do not see another 1AA matchup on the schedule.
Ok so Florida played a 1AA team...Flordia went 12-1 and UM went 11-1 so IMO to use that 1AA game against Florida is useless in an argument.
This is correct, Western Carolina is the only 1-AA school Florida played. They also played Central Florida this year, and they are a 1-A school.QUOTE(Ramius @ Dec 3 2006, 10:55 PM)
Yah florida played a very tough schedule. They had 2 grueling games against 1-AA opponents. not to mention they won games against SC and FSU by backing into the victories ass first.
2 1-AA opponents??
Florida played one 1AA opponent (Western Carolina)...I do not see another 1AA matchup on the schedule.
Ok so Florida played a 1AA team...Flordia went 12-1 and UM went 11-1 so IMO to use that 1AA game against Florida is useless in an argument.
You could argue that Michigan's non-conference schedule of Miami(Ohio), Ball State, Vanderbilt, & Notre Dame was tougher than Florida's non-conference schedule of Central Florida, Western Carolina, Southern Mississippi, & Florida State.
QUOTE
smokinandjokin Posted Today, 08:31 AM
IMO, Florida has earned it. My thinking, flawed as it may be, is that the national champion should be able to win their own conference.
I would like to hear more of your reasoning on why Florida has earned this national title shot and why Michigan has not earned it.
IMO, Florida has earned it. My thinking, flawed as it may be, is that the national champion should be able to win their own conference.
QUOTE(DonteWhitner @ Dec 4 2006, 08:45 PM)
Your inability to stick up for yourself after my comment futher proves that I am probably correct.
Were you attending RU games when Jacki Crooks was in the RU backfield? I was.
1/1 says NO for you.
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Were you attending RU games when Jacki Crooks was in the RU backfield? I was.
1/1 says NO for you.
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My first RU game was in 1998, so yes, I saw Jacki.
I've been attending regularly since 2000.
There's no argument to absolutely prove Florida does or doesn't deserve it.
But I think it's fair to say the conference title requirement is a good minimum standard. Yeah, it may not be fair that a great conference can't get a wild card, but it's the closest thing we have to on-field merit. If you're not the best team in your group of 10 or 12 regional counterparts, then you can't be the best in the whole country. It doesn't matter if you're No.2 or No.3 or No.4 -- Michigan can't be No.1, unless you want to argue now that what we saw in November was moot.
If somebody wants to make Michigan's case because of strength of schedule or quality wins, then they need to argue to return to the rock-paper-scissor formula that handed OU a free pass in 2003.
But I think it's fair to say the conference title requirement is a good minimum standard. Yeah, it may not be fair that a great conference can't get a wild card, but it's the closest thing we have to on-field merit. If you're not the best team in your group of 10 or 12 regional counterparts, then you can't be the best in the whole country. It doesn't matter if you're No.2 or No.3 or No.4 -- Michigan can't be No.1, unless you want to argue now that what we saw in November was moot.
If somebody wants to make Michigan's case because of strength of schedule or quality wins, then they need to argue to return to the rock-paper-scissor formula that handed OU a free pass in 2003.
QUOTE(MarkVaderr50 @ Dec 4 2006, 09:41 PM)
I would like to hear more of your reasoning on why Florida has earned this national title shot and why Michigan has not earned it.
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Michigan did earn their title shot by winning their first 11 games. They got that title shot in their 12th game, and they lost. It was close, a 3-point defeat, and while UM played admirably in a hostile environment, OSU proved they are the class of the conference. Michigan's stout defense gave up 42 points in the one game that they needed to be at their best.
The SEC has been touted as the nation's toughest conference. Florida, by winning the nation's toughest conference, (and like Michigan, suffered just one loss in a hostile environment on the road,) has earned their crack at Ohio State.
Michigan may very well be better than Florida. But who knows? My thinking, again flawed as it may be, is that a national champion should be able to win their conference. There is no way to remove the subjectivity. Is the 2nd-best team in the Big Ten better than the best team in the SEC? Who's to say? It's impossible to compare. Without a playoff, I'm much more comfortable giving a conference champion a shot rather than letting a team who couldn't win their conference and couldn't stop their opponent's offense a crack at a rematch.
The fact we even have to talk about this makes me laugh...
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smokinandjokin Posted Yesterday, 09:59 AM
QUOTE(MarkVaderr50 @ Dec 4 2006, 09:41 PM)
I would like to hear more of your reasoning on why Florida has earned this national title shot and why Michigan has not earned it.
Michigan did earn their title shot by winning their first 11 games. They got that title shot in their 12th game, and they lost. It was close, a 3-point defeat, and while UM played admirably in a hostile environment, OSU proved they are the class of the conference. Michigan's stout defense gave up 42 points in the one game that they needed to be at their best.
The SEC has been touted as the nation's toughest conference. Florida, by winning the nation's toughest conference, (and like Michigan, suffered just one loss in a hostile environment on the road,) has earned their crack at Ohio State.
Michigan may very well be better than Florida. But who knows? My thinking, again flawed as it may be, is that a national champion should be able to win their conference. There is no way to remove the subjectivity. Is the 2nd-best team in the Big Ten better than the best team in the SEC? Who's to say? It's impossible to compare. Without a playoff, I'm much more comfortable giving a conference champion a shot rather than letting a team who couldn't win their conference and couldn't stop their opponent's offense a crack at a rematch.
If that is how you feel about the national title, then why are you not pushing for Boise State to get a shot at Ohio State?QUOTE(MarkVaderr50 @ Dec 4 2006, 09:41 PM)
I would like to hear more of your reasoning on why Florida has earned this national title shot and why Michigan has not earned it.
Michigan did earn their title shot by winning their first 11 games. They got that title shot in their 12th game, and they lost. It was close, a 3-point defeat, and while UM played admirably in a hostile environment, OSU proved they are the class of the conference. Michigan's stout defense gave up 42 points in the one game that they needed to be at their best.
The SEC has been touted as the nation's toughest conference. Florida, by winning the nation's toughest conference, (and like Michigan, suffered just one loss in a hostile environment on the road,) has earned their crack at Ohio State.
Michigan may very well be better than Florida. But who knows? My thinking, again flawed as it may be, is that a national champion should be able to win their conference. There is no way to remove the subjectivity. Is the 2nd-best team in the Big Ten better than the best team in the SEC? Who's to say? It's impossible to compare. Without a playoff, I'm much more comfortable giving a conference champion a shot rather than letting a team who couldn't win their conference and couldn't stop their opponent's offense a crack at a rematch.
The Broncos are undefeated and won their conference?
Yet they get the Fiesta Bowl. Is that fair?
True Michigan's stout defense gave up 42 points, at the same time Ohio State's defense gave up 39 points.
QUOTE(MarkVaderr50 @ Dec 6 2006, 10:13 AM)
If that is how you feel about the national title, then why are you not pushing for Boise State to get a shot at Ohio State?
The Broncos are undefeated and won their conference?
Yet they get the Fiesta Bowl. Is that fair?
True Michigan's stout defense gave up 42 points, at the same time Ohio State's defense gave up 39 points.
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The Broncos are undefeated and won their conference?
Yet they get the Fiesta Bowl. Is that fair?
True Michigan's stout defense gave up 42 points, at the same time Ohio State's defense gave up 39 points.
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We can continue to give both sides of every argument for every potential team, and it's already been done in this forum and elsewhere thousands of times. What point exactly are you trying to make here?
Is Michigan deserving? Sure. Even though they already lost to OSU.
Is Florida deserving? Sure. I would say winning the SEC is more difficult than winning any other conference.
Is Boise State deserving? Sure. Even though 15 other teams would've gone undefeated playing their schedule, they didn't lose. Can't fault 'em.
Louisville? Sure. One loss on the road on the last play of the game.
The point is, with the exception of weak-scheduled Boise State, not one of those teams took care of their own business, thus leaving everything open for interpretation.
We could go back and forth on this for hours. A playoff seems logical. But perhaps the debate and conversation about the BCS teams is exactly what the NCAA wants. Look at us, we're talking about it.
Ohio State vs. Florida. Simple as that. I'm not a big fan of the BCS, but they got this one right, IMO.
Michigan? No, I don't wanna see them again. Not because of the closeness of the game. As far as I'm concerned, they took their shot and missed.
I am not discounting that Florida could beat the Buckeyes, but Ohio State is far and away the better team. The Gators would have to play much better than OSU in order to win.
In 2002, Ohio State had everything go right for them. That team was probably not as talented as some of the John Cooper era teams, but they were always prepared, were extremely well-coached, and caught lucky breaks along the way (and that does NOT include the interference call in the Fiesta Bowl...Miami had one more chance to tie that game, and they couldn't do it).
The 2006 Buckeyes may be the best Ohio State team ever. They would beat the 2002 team by two touchdowns. I don't see a loss here, but anything is possible. The roles are reversed from 2002, and Ohio State will be the heavy favorite.
Prediction? Ohio State 31, Florida 13.
Michigan? No, I don't wanna see them again. Not because of the closeness of the game. As far as I'm concerned, they took their shot and missed.
I am not discounting that Florida could beat the Buckeyes, but Ohio State is far and away the better team. The Gators would have to play much better than OSU in order to win.
In 2002, Ohio State had everything go right for them. That team was probably not as talented as some of the John Cooper era teams, but they were always prepared, were extremely well-coached, and caught lucky breaks along the way (and that does NOT include the interference call in the Fiesta Bowl...Miami had one more chance to tie that game, and they couldn't do it).
The 2006 Buckeyes may be the best Ohio State team ever. They would beat the 2002 team by two touchdowns. I don't see a loss here, but anything is possible. The roles are reversed from 2002, and Ohio State will be the heavy favorite.
Prediction? Ohio State 31, Florida 13.
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