so I can't find that thread...

does anyone have any experiences/tips/advice about it?

looking for a 22-inch or bigger flat panel. It doesn't need to be HDtv. In fact, I'd prefer that it isn't, to shave off some scoots.

best bang for your buck is an lcd projector.... you can go from 22" to 10 feet if you want. Just go for one that has a a contrast ratio and lumes both > than 1700 or it won't look crisp in a well lit room. Outstanding LCD projectors can be had for $1800 and they look fabulous even on an off white wall. If you purchase a screen specifically for the wall, the picture is even better.

I've heard that the LCD's can suffer from pixel "failure" (a bright spot IIRC), and that plasma units have been criticized for image burn-in, by the ever-present "bugs" and "crawlers".

Given the $$$ of the units, one of those goofy extended contracts might be a consideration.

Just comments here - I am no expert.

Generally the pixel is DOA or it's good forever. Think of the monitor on your laptop for example. Also, if it's just one pr two bad pixels, you probably won't even notice it.

I will second teh projector idea though. I watched the Superbowl in my dining room - 100" screen projected on a wall (still finishing my basement theater.......). The picture was *stunning* Even the guy plowing our street stopped in front of our house for a good 5-10 minutes watching the game through our window! (until I got up and looked out the window, then he drove away. Quite funny).

CW

My obligatory link to the TV comparisons: http://www.digiupdate.com/100_Selecting_HD_Display.html

The bottom line is not to buy the "cheapest" version of any of them. Cheap LCD's will have bad refresh rates (which means the players will quite literally "streaK" across the screen). Cheap Plasmas will have short lifetimes (which means you can expect to replace them sooner).

The front projections are not covered here. Obligatory link to the AVS forums as well: http://www.avsforum.com/
Rear projection forum here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?forumid=63

BTW, look for the pinned TV Talk like in the consumer board, as soon as I can get around to it. I'll try to link to discussions like these when they come up, so they don't get lost.

This topic is intended to cover the TV discussions that happen here on Two Bills Drive.

Helpful links to other forums/sources of info appreciated here.

A great forum for TV talk is at AVS Forum, in the Rear Projection TV forum. Other great forums are also available.

A decent overview of the different TV technologies and their associated pros and cons can be found here. Other articles that cover the technologies can be found off the home page.

Any true flat panels will cost an arm & leg. But if you can live with the 8" - 12" depths - LCD or DLP rear projections will give you best bang for footprint buck.

projection. I'm flexible. The only thing I care about is the picture quality and price. If you were willing to spend up to $3000.00 bucks for a TV which one will you get?

DLP. Plazma is the best but $$$.

32 inch Widescreen HDTV Sony WEGA...that stevestojan is beautiful
it's a CRT still, but you're going to get higher quality and reliability compared to the rest of the options you presented

I'd go for DLP or (what I went for) Mitsu Silver Plus Series standard rear projection. If you dig back, there are some threads on Consumer Forum about this...Of course you didn't list the size of the room/space for the TV...

http://www.avsforum.com/ if you really want to research it.

I can get you a very competitive price on the Dell 42" HD plasma.

PM me if you're interested.

Don't underestimate a good front projector (either DLP or LCD). I have an LCD projector (Panasonic AE700) and it looks AWESOME; gives you a MUCH larger screen than you'll get with a typical TV.

CW

DLP's are nice but you have to replace the bulb every year. At around $200 to $300 a pop. That's like buying a regular tv every year. I'd like to make a purchase in the next few years but it is very confusing.

Samsung has the bulb to be replaced at 8000 hrs. Thats a good bit of time even if you are a tv freak and watch 8 hrs a day. Over 3 yrs. Bonus is it will look like a new TV when you replace the bulb.

Love my sammy 4r hln dlp, paid $3300almost 20 months ago. The new ones,the HLPs, with higher contrast and a better color wheel, I think are only around 2200 now.

Every year? I know the Samsung bulbs are rated for 8000 hours which I guess would mean replacing every year if you left the TV on 24/7....FYI, the bulbs in rear-projection LCD TV's are rated for the same length of life, and my understanding is that, while the cost of the replacement bulb is about the same as DLP, it is not as easy to replace....Regardless, I can't imagine how the bulbs would not be covered under an extended warranty, and with a TV, I can't imagine buying without getting extended coverage....a question to ask though...

Technically, with standard rear projection TV's, you're supposed to get them recalibrated every 3000 hours (at about the same cost of bulb replacement if you have an expert do it), but truth be told the TV's these days are getting better at keeping their guns aligned...

we just got this:

Samsung 46" Widescreen HD-Ready DLP-Projection TV with DVI and HDMI Input - Silver/Black

Model: HL-P4663W


and it is awesome!!!

I think it is a stretch to say that bulb will need to be replaced every year, unless you really watch TV 24/7/365...

Nice tv, what was the price. Like I said, I paid 3300 for the 46 inch about 20 months ago.

I think it was $2099, best buy was running $400 off TVs over 40 inches or something.

As someone who has first hand knowledge- I'd say check out the new Samsung DLP rear projection- its a 50 inch, and has THE best picture I've seen.

Plasma is great, but burns in, and individual pixels can break. LCD fixes the burn in, but pixels still break.

Standard rear projection gets burn in.

LCD rear projection and DLP rear projection are your best bet- make sure to buy the extended warrantee, and make sure that it covers the once a year maintenance and bulb replacement costs- that will literally pay the few hundred that the warrentee will cost you.

Bulbs should last 3-4 years

I went with a Mitsubishi 62" DLP and the picture is the best! You feed this puppy HD and it's breathtaking! Also, if you calibrate on these things the lower contrast/brightness means longer bulb life. The guys at Tweeter told me I could get 4-5 years before a bulb replacement.

Well, I'm glad to hear they last 3 to 4 years. Maybe, I was thinking of the older tech tv's. That will help make my decision. I've seen the DLP's and they do look awesome.

The best way to purchase a micro-display is simple, head over to AVSForums as Dan Gross advised and read until you're sick of reading. Take that knowledge out on the town and view each of those that have come to interest you. In the final analysis, it's still your eyes that have to be pleased.

As a rough guide, DLP's have a tendency to display clay faces and maybe 5% of people will have problem with what's known as "rainbow effect". LCD rear projection seems to suffer most from weak black levels. Both have the infamous bulb issues.

With Plasma prices failing, they have become more attractive, and they are the top sellers overall. Burn-in isn't a big issue anymore (although it's still not recommended to use them for PC displays or gaming).

I've seen some gorgeous LCD's from Sharp and a new Samsung 40" panel (with excellent refresh rate - 8ms - to finally put the lag issue largely to rest). But these are generally considerably more $$$, but discount displays are helping to get the overall pricing down a bit. Sadly, black levels continue to be a weak link. SDE (screen door effect) is another issue to some.

This is an extrodinary time with so many display types available. One can only image which will ultimately win out, or even if the ultimate Tube replacement technology is yet known.

For now, enjoy whatever you can afford.

Well, mine lasted 6 months...

Sure hope you bought the extended warentee

Leaving it turned on 24x7? That'd do it... (4320 hours in 6 months).

CW

LG replaced it under warranty, but now I am scared to death of this thing. The bulds are $300 for my set.

I actually plan on calling LG to demand an extended warranty on the bulb (I'll gladly pay the $300 for a 5 year warranty).

Was this the one you got from the Golf outing or did you get it new? If it was used prior, what were the conditions of use (it a tent heavy moisture, heavy usage during initial first 100 hours) that may have an effect on the long term of the bulb. I just got a 50 inch DLP from Samsung, and so far I'm loving it!!!

Does DLP refer to a control mechanism to provide analogue (continuous spectra) light onto a phosphor screen? So will it not give the edge harshness of a digital display? Just asking questions...

No. DLP = Digital Light Processing. Basically there's a light that shoots off of tiny microscopic mirrors. Here's a decent overview:

http://www.dlp.com/dlp_technology/dlp_tech...gy_overview.asp

The only potential problem with DLP is that some people see "rainbows" when they watch.

CW

As someone who has absolutely no clue whatsoever, what about using a TV card through the computer and a presentation type projector? Or is that what everyone was talking about earlier? Could make for some pretty interesting gaming experience too. I use that stuff (including video) in briefings a lot, and the resolution seems fine.

That's called an HTPC --- Home Theater PC. Check out AVSForum.com - there's a whole forum dedicated to just that, and it does work fine (although not quite as easy as just hooking up a DVD player)
CW

My buddy just bought a refurbed Samsung 61 inch HLN DLP. Came in original box with all original stuff. Someplace in Northern VA on the web. Paid 1200 for it , with a two year all inclusive guarantee. If considering going the DLP route, may be something to look into too. Granted, it is a generation old, but he felt the savings was worth it.

OMFG that AVS forum is a biatch to read.

too many colors

digiupdate link broken

Hard to read...? There's a ton of banner ads at the top, but you can skip 'em.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=64
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=63
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=40
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=68

CW

Or you can use the Firefox browser and install the Adblock extension. Right click --> block and that ad source is gone.

Yeah, yellow text and blue background.

Poorest web design in the history of all mankind.

Looks crisp and easy to read for me...

That said, if you login, you can change the website's "skin" so it looks different. That site is THE definitive source for information in the A/V world.
CW

so i guess DLP is not the best thing for me to get.

what about LCD? any replacement factors on that?

i do play a good amount of video games. im told Plasma is great, but will burn in an image if you play a lot of games and such.

any suggestions about brands? Sharp, Poloroid, Sony, Magnavox....

im looking to get a 32 inch flat screen.

CH, i would not discount DLP simply over the bulb replacement. I have had mine for two years now, looks just as good as the day i bought it. And someone told me the other day that the CC and BB are now including one bulb replacement in the Extended warranty.

I recommend the ex. warr on all three sets as if they go bad, really no fixing em. But you may get differant opinions on that.

In terms of brands, I have both a 46 inch Samsung DLP and 26 inch LCD. I love them both, and have had no issues with either one.

Also, i do not think that plasma burn in is really an issue, think it was blown a little out of proporation, but do research on that. My gut tells me that was more an urban myth than reality.


One bit of advice, many plasmas that are sold are EDTV, not HDTV. So if the price looks really good, make sure you check the resolution. I am told it really makes a differance, but I cannot confirm

Understand that every technology has its own "maintenance" issue. With Old-fashioned rear-projectors, it's convergence, for many others (at least in the larger sizes), it's bulb replacement. At the size you're talking about the LCD TV would actually be flat panel (once you get to about 42" you're actually looking at rear-projection TV's with a bulb that needs replacement as well...). Downsides to LCD can include contrast/refresh issues and "dead pixels." Actually with flat panels, both LCD's and Plasmas have a limited life. You are basically giving up "bulb replacement" (about 20,000 hours for projection TV's) for "lifetime of product," though in any case you are talking about 30,000+ hours for a good TV. So when a projection (be it LCD, DLP...) goes "dim" you replace the bulb, when a flat panel goes dim, you'll replace the TV...though it could be a long time depending on your viewing habits.


Last I knew, too, DLP did not go "that low" in size (42" being the smallest I know of)...

I think you're limited to LCD, Tube and Plasma at that size, but don't quote me.

General caveat is that my info may be dated, as I haven't been keeping totally up since I bought my TV a couple years ago...

2001: A Reply Odyssey

Looks like a big Xmas push for the new generation 1080p DLP upconverting sets. A 62" Mitsubishi DLP 1080i can be had for under $2000, according to the Tweeter flyer I got. Yowza!

I spent a few months researching and trying to buy a big screen tv. I almost bought the one at woot.com, a 61" Infocus rear projection DLP...its only 7" deep!...but ended up getting a front projector and screen for 600.00 less.

I was fortunate to have access to a pretty good projector so I was able to bring it home and try it out. Other than the drawback of it needing a dimly lit room, I was blown away! Of course, unless you have a really good source (HDTV, DVD, etc.) you are only blowing up a poor image to huge proportions, so you need a good source. I watched a few DVDs and then tried watching the football playoffs. Since I don't have cable (I think I'll get a dish actually), the TV image was disappointing. The DVDs however were awsome...and that was just projected on my living room wall (the projection screen will make a big difference).

I ended up ordering a Panasonic AE900U projector and a 92" GreyWolf screen. It should arrive this week and I should be watching the Superbowl in HiDef.

Oh, and what applies to rear projection pretty much applies to front projection, except you don't have a huge box in your livingroom. Unfortunately, I'll have to replace the bulb after a couple years.

You made a great choice -- nothing beats a front projector, as long as you can control the lighting in the room. When you watch the Superbowl in HD, you'll be absolutely blown away!

I have the AE700, and it rocks. The AE900 is slightly better from what I've read (esepcially with contrast ratio).

CW

Time for everyone to go back to AVSForums. Samsung (DLP) has announced a new light engine to replace the bulb and the color wheel. Initially thought to be rated at approx 20,000 hours IIRC. Cost should be comparable to a bulb light engine over a short time. It is LED based and the dreaded RBE - rainbow effect - should become a thing of the past.

After last year's Sony successes with their Bravia XBR line of LCDs, and their rear projection SXRD (LCoS), Samsung is fighting back with the new light engine for their DLPs. Could be a while before they show up in sets and expect to pay an early adapter premium (as with all electronic technologies). As it stands today, Sony's SXRD line of rear projection sets (SXRD technology was "borrowed" from their Qualia line of HDTV's, of which their 70" model ran $12,000 to $13,000). I'd love to know if Sony will also adapt their light engines to utilize LEDs as well.

If absolute size (and you can control the light conditions) is one's main focus, front projection wins, but if it's absolute clarity, color depth and film like quality, then they trail Plasma, and arguably LCD, and DLP. This is not to say excellent front projections system don't exist, but $ for $, overall picture quality is not where front projection excels, unless of course you've got plenty of $$$ and can afford a 3-chip DLP projector, but the bulb issues will remain.

As for the 8,000 hour rated life for bulbs (LCD or DLP), it seems those at AVSForums
would have you believe it's more like 3,000 hours and before it dies, there will be a gradual loss of luminance over its life as well.

What is wonderful, is that if you can swing it, there are multiple ways (technologies) to reach HDTV nirvana and as it has been the past few years, the products continue to get better. Stay with a quality brand and you will be dazzled.

Couldn't agree more. I bought an outdated projector (Sanyo Z2) this past November. I have the thing over 20' away from the screen, and the screen is 120". DVDs look awesome, but HDTV is absolutely stunning! This will be the first year I'll have it for the superbowl, so I'm totally psyched. But I can tell you that every sporting event - from hockey, to football, to extreme sports - looks razor sharp. I can't say I've ever been a huge hockey fan (I'm getting more into it, though), but the HD broadcasts on HDNet are incredible. It's truly as though you're sitting in the front row of the arena with the action right on top of you. The puck is clear as a bell and very easy to track, and goals are all that much more exciting since you can easily see what is going on. My projector is the single most impressive addition to my home theater....and I am a HUGE audio fan. Just ask Fez how many pairs of speakers I have.....

I just wanted to follow up with some comments about my home theater projector that I mentioned above...

I am extremely happy with this purchase. I realize there may be better projectors out there for less money now, but hey, I've been enjoying this set up for a few months now. I must say that even though I have yet to get cable or a dish, there is plenty of HD accessible free over the air...you just need a tuner. I have really gotten into sports broadcasts so much more (and like the person previously mentioned, I am not a hockey fan and I even find myself watching that!).

In basketball games, I can see the individual players, their expressions, follow their movements. In golf, I can see the grain of the grass on the greens. In football, I can isolate on receivers, the QB, or whatever, and pick out individuals. It is just fantastic!

My wife and I are also into computer games, so I put together a home theater PC that allows us to play games on my 92" screen. I have an upconverting DVD player so that is cool too for watching movies (although not true HD).

All in all, this is one of my best purchases ever, and would highly recommend a front projector to sports fans, movie buffs, or gamers. The only real drawbacks are that you need a light controlled space (and who watches TV in a brightly lit room anyway?) and the bulb will need to be replaced after about two years for 350.00.

ok can some people give me some reccomendations on 42inch tvs......

I dont need something wayyyyy expensive but I do want a nice tv....just good

anyone? makes and models?