$15 million is a paltry sum for the largest economy in the world. The Netherlands contributed $2 million on their own. I love my country with all my heart but our foreign policy pisses me off. If you broke down our foreign aid as a percentage of our GNP we would be nowhere near the top. Check out Japan foreign aid consistantly year after year. Japan is truly a benevolent nation. $15 million in aid for a half dozen countrys that have lost well over 50,000 and have had their number one source of industry(tourism) depleted for the next decade. Let put that in perspective. Drew Bledsoe will earn $6 million this year. Sammy Sosa will earn $17 million this year. $17 million for Sammy and $15 million for releif. That makes me fuggin sick!

How much did you give?

Wow. Except for the sports references, that's almost a direct quote of the UN's official statement today.

It also ignores that there's currently a carrier battle group and an amphibious battle group headed into the Bengal Sea for relief work...not only is that more of a presence than any nation on earth could muster into the region, do you have any idea how much operations like that cost?

For that matter...how much should the US give? What's a fair amount of money to give to the region that can be absorbed by the local economies and used for relief efforts rather than get wasted? I'll bet you haven't the slightest idea.

Exactly what I was alluding to in the other thread, Tom.

We give amounts heads and shoulders about what other countries do and what do we get in return? Not a "thank you", but accusations of being "stingy".

I give $100 to the Red Cross every year. I do plan on giving more. I am backpacking Europe for 6 weeks in Feb so I need to budget. I will figure out where I am at and give more

Yeah, but you were saying we shouldn't give because others don't recognize it. I disagree. People need help, you help. Congenital !@#$s like the UN diplomats don't recognize it, that's entirely their problem.

What's wrong with the principle of doing the right thing because its the right thing to do? Or failing that, what's wrong with providing humanitarian aid to a region (Indonesia in particular) that, if it becomes any more unstable, runs a real risk of becoming a haven for Islamic militants? Did you ever consider that it's not that much of a stretch that humanitarian aid in this situation is a pretty damned reasonable and cost-effective military tactic?

Yes the carrier battle group and amphipious battle group have been hanging in the area exclusively to respond to natural disasters. It has nothing to do with proximity to the mid-east, North Korea or policing international waters-its pure benevolence. You dont find anything wrong with the fact that Sosa earns $17 million to play baseball and our $8 trillion economy can only contribute $15 million? BTW we have only given $400,000 so far- the rest is promised.

How much should the US give? The US should be the leaders in foreign aid and not only give when we have something to gain. If Phuket had oil we would be more generous.

That's completely disingenuous.

Not to mention ridiculous.

By the time we're finished, we'll have outspent other nations by 3-4 fold. Get a grip.

Holy misguided thought process, batman.

The government shouldn't be GIVING away a DIME of taxpayer money. If people want to give, they should do so freely through the charitable organizations that'll ensure the money actually gets to the people who need it instead of lining the pockets of scumbag politicos.

Try reading about "Oil for Food" sometime. It's not the exception, it's the rule.

We are FAR and AWAY the most giving society on the planet. Ever live overseas?

How much did you give?

I do whats right and do not concern myself with what others contribute. $15 million is paltry when compared with our GNP. You wonder why other countrys hate the US?

I had a nice long reply typed out to this, then I realized that you're too stupid to read it anyway, as evidenced by the fact that you seem to believe that $15M is the absolute sum total of all the aid that will ever be given to the Bengal Sea countries in this disaster.

By the way...neither naval group was in the area. The phib group is being deployed all the way from San Diego, I believe.

Yup and how much have the previous democrat leaders given? I don't honestly know about Kerry's contributions, but both Clinton and Gore have said it is the governments job to aid people and refused to give up any of their own cash. Guess what it isn't the governments job to spend my money any where they want. It is up to respresentives to vote and o what is best for the people of this country. If we as individuals feel strongly we should contrinute, period, end of subject.

They hate us because we have all the desire and ability to earn that much money. They hate us because when we ask for help they spit at us. They hate us, because when they as a country get caught stealing the relief funds and not giving it to the needy they get all pissy.

Too stupid? I guess you are too lazy to type up that reply and instead need to rely on insults. I would love to hear intelligent responses.

My charitable contributions are between me and the IRS. But I'm not the one bitching about something I have no concept of, now am I?

The Scandinavian countrys have a higher standard of living then the USA. Why do they dislike the US so much?


??? I dont follow


How is this applicable to say Sweden?

My question is looking for cause and effect. The root cause why anti-Americanism is growing is our foreign policy

So, let me see if I get this straight. You are putting your own selfish desires (backpacking in Europe) ahead of the needs of people who have lost most if not everything, while at the same time complaining that others are not giving enough to help out.

Go ahead y'all and keep putting words in my mouth and distorting my beleifs. Selfish? You can say whatever about me but that is one word that cannot be used to describe me. How do you know the lengths I go for people? You know jackshit about me so quit being so presumtuious. I spoke my opinion which I beleive strongly. We do have freedom of speech in this country- I was exercising it. Anyways I pay my taxes so I do have a right to say where I wish my tax money to be spent. I use my representatives but I also use my voice. I give after tax dollars to charity as well. Fug you for accusing me of being a hypocrite. I travel and like to see the world. If anything I am a great ambassador for the US. I dont spew hate from a keyboard-I embrace other cultures and love to hang out with locals. Democrat? HAHA That is almost as laughable as your "selfish" quip. I hate both partys but particularily have disdain for the democratic party. I didnt realize being moral and benevolent and being concerned for those that have suffered were qualitys exclusive to the democratic party

I tried that. You ignored it.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of help can a carrier battle group give in this kind of a disaster? I am sure they can do something but I don't know what. Rescues at sea maybe? Air searches?

That, and I imagine a carrier has enough of a medical staff to do quite a bit of good. It's not exactly a hospital ship...but it's got to have a fair number of beds and doctors. Although, in this kind of situation, you're pretty much either okay or a corpse...tsunami don't leave a lot of injured.

Another thing I just thought of...the coastal transportation network must be totally wrecked. The carrier's heilcopters can come in handy for that.

You are the one who stated that you could only give $100 because you were saving your money for your trip to Europe, while at the same time complaining that others are not giving enough, even asking Darin how much he gave (expecting to rip him for not giving enough). I am using your words. Sorry if they make you look, well, selfish.



So was I. Too bad you do not allow others the same rights you give yourself.

Keep trying.

Ah, so it's OK for YOU to thrust YOUR beliefs of an entire country based on a snippet or 2 of information but you don't like it much when the same is done back to you as an individual? Shocking.

For the record-

I see nothing in my statement that says all I could give is $100, nor do I see anywhere in that statement that would lead you to imply that I am selfish. Please find anywhere in this thread where I accused people of not giving enough. My grievence is with our foreign policy. BTW KRC- Did you know the dollar is at an alltime low- the euro is kicking the sh-- out of it!

WTF? Darin asked me how much I gave and I said I give $100 every year to the Red Cross and planned on giving more. I give to other charitys too btw. Then you get pissed when I asked the same question to Darin? Then you assume I am gonna rip Darin. I merely asked him the same question he asked me. He stated it should be up to the individual not the government. I never complained that anyone did not give enough, I said it is disturbing to me how my tax dollars are being spent. I already have my eurorail pass, my airline ticket and I have planned this trip for two years. I will be gone 6 weeks and need to budget accordingly. Reading comphrehension anyone?

Then there was this gem-
in respsponse to me stating:
I spoke my opinion which I beleive strongly. We do have freedom of speech in this country- I was exercising it.
Please explain to me how I suppressed freedom of speech in this thread? I asked for intelligent responses. This is getting ridiculous. An exchange of ideas-thats what I am looking for

Lets present the crux of my argument that you are trying to distort-

The United States, the world's largest economy, contributes about 0.13% a year of its GDP to foreign aid. That is stingy in my book!

Good. We should eliminate that last little piece and give zero. That'll eliminate the corruption and graft that is so rampant with these "programs".

This may be the first time anyone ever accused the Federal Government of being stingy, though.

All COCOMS have something called a "Security Cooperation" Plan. Probably one of the most important plans in each arsenal, as one has to CONSTANTLY shape the environment one is operating in.

Relief efforts fall into the realm of Consequence Management. Every Combatant Command has a Consequence Management annex to every plan they own. It's known under JOPES as Annex T.

Disaster relief is part of consequence management. Inside the US, consequence management is the realm of FEMA. Overseas, it's the realm of the State Department. It's called "Lead Federal Agency". They are a coordinator and integrator.

In real terms, State, as the lead FCM agency, is requesting immediate support from the DoD to help mitigate where they can, essentially direct to both CENTCOM and PACOM. The DoD is then taking the lead in getting the initial relief effort set up.

This initially, comes out of Defense dollars. Follow on will come out of State. It will far surpass $15 million. Budgetary reimbursements/ re-allocation of contingency funds will come later.

That's why I hate "the News"

great post BIB- thanks for the info!

BTW Powell just added $20 million, bringing the US relief total to $35 million-
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041228/D878TEPG1.html

Why do you keep saying all of the world hates us, and then keep referring to Sweden. WTF cares what Sweden thinks? Secondly, just because some citizens are vocal doesn't mean they hate us. There is always the vocal 10%. Do you think Japan hates us? I have been there. The Japanese respect us and are involved in a lot of our coalitions, but they hate us down to their bones. Okinawa which is under Japanese control, like us however. They hate the Japanese with all their heart. Of course unless you know the politics, the people and the circumstances you would never know this.

Korea, love us. We helped them kick start their economy. They are living off that. Of course I can show you demostrations and people there that hate us, but that is not the majority.

Russians? I have several very, very good Russian friends, some of which served in their Army during the Afghan wars, and cold war. These guys absolutely adore us as a country. They know they are going through some hard times, but they love as a majority the Americans.

So what some of the more liberal countries have issues with us, like France, Germany, etc... Of course if you knew what you where talking about, you would realize it isn't true. They are our allies in NATO, which had to be ratified and shows that they are close and sincere allies of ours. Doesn't mean they have to agree with us always. What friends do you have that agree with everything you say? If you have any I would get rid of them. They are not your friends.

You need to do yourself a favor and understand world politics a little better. What one country says or does to appease their more outspoken citizens, isn't always what is reality.

Take our election this year, if you listened to the media and exist polls, Kerry should have won by 20 points. Yet he lost by a fair margin. Guess what, the vocal and outspoken that the media shows is usually not reality.

Also as far as the carrier group goes that is helping, that is huge bucks. It costs upwards of 30 million a day for normal operations (this is an old estimate I saw, it probably is more). Relief efforts, and supply usage probably will go up and easily cost nearly double that. So that means we as a government are sending 30 million or more per day. This includes manpower, maintenance, and flight operational costs.

I think the 20 million additional is just a loan guarantee. I don't belive it is direct funding.

You guys are too much. Nowhere do I say "all the world hates us". I said anti-Americanism is on the rise-which it is. I said foreign countrys hate our foreign policy. I travel and I know people from everywhere. Most the world loves Americans but hates our foreign policy. As for Sweden I mentioned them once because they have a higher standard of living then the US and to demonstrate that hate towards US policy not neccisarily has to do with our wealth. I agree with your post Viriginia for the most part. Americans are adored in much of the world. BTW De Gaulle pulled France out of NATO. They are a NATO country but not militarily

You stated :




Now you say they adore us, but hate our foreign policy. The least you could have done is waited until another thread to change your statements.

Your welcome.

We do do things besides suck baby blood. There are soldiers, marines, and airman that are helping the best they can, as we speak.

I might be biased, but very few know how to give, and to help, like the American military.

I tithe 10%...

You wanna raise my taxes 5k a year?... I will gleefully comply...

Signed,

Stalin in Illinois

OMG this board is unreal. Reading comprehension. You wrote:



to which I replied



You are the one that inferred that "they" hate us. I responded to your post and observations by asking why we are disliked in Sweden. I am not saying Swedes "hate" Americans, I am saying they dislike our foreign policy. I certainly did not say "all of the world hates us" as you claim.

Noone has a finer appreciation for our military, their contributions and their unselfishness then I do. My post was never a slight on our military. I do feel Americans are some of the greatest, most caring people on the planet and that our financial foreign aid is not indicitive of that. Our military certainly contributes just as much, if not more then any other country and the world benefits enormously. I was also trying to steer this thread into an observation with wage disparity in this country. It boggles my mind that Sosa gets $17 million this year while we only give $15 million initially and while the Red Cross stuggles for conributions. Its ass backwards IMO

Whatever. I know how things work, which is immaterial to this place.

great article on CNN explaining all the foreign aid we give. Good read-
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/12/28/...s.ap/index.html

15 million?

The innauguration gala has already raised 40 million.

Yeah and with the carrier group on station for 2 days and aid of 35 million already, this is already a 100 million dollar effort on our part. Oh and read that article.

It says 81 million has been pledged worldwide. With 35 million from the US. That means the rest of the countries are only providing just over half of the money.

And the amphibious group.

And apparently they plan on putting a military command in Thailand, under a three-star (which makes it an army-equivalent, I guess), to coordinate all the aid we're sending. I don't think setting up an army-level HQ in the field is all that cheap...

Now someone explain what Sammy Sosa has to do with all this again...?

It is a Marine 3 star. I heard that today. Yeah that means they are probably commiting at least 10,000 troops to help as well.

And rightly so... We are the greatest, strongest, richest country on earth, equal to none. I sure the hell don't have a problem with it.

And by the way...the total aid committed to date from all sources is $60M. $35M of that is American. We're giving more aid to the region than the rest of the world combined.

And the official death toll is just a shade under 70k now...originally, when this story broke with 3k deaths, I said to myself "That's low by a factor of about 30", then said "Nah, I'm being overly dramatic. It can't be that bad." As it stands now, it looks like the death toll will easily surpass 100k, which has me honestly sick to my stomach.

Anyone who does have a problem with it should be forcibly sent over there for a week to help.

Mostly because it's not your ass on the line.

China who is closer to the situation, probably has as much real income as the US. Japan isn't far behind as well, and also is close to the situation. Why are they not looked upon to take the lead. You are now demanding and expecting the US to take the lead on this and go into these countries with troops and help the people.

Yet you bitch and moan when we go into Iraq and help their people, who are dying at a much higher rate.

Help their people? Help their people? You must be kidding? What is happening is exactly what I thought would... We are now picking and choosing who needs what, with our self-serving goals conveniently cloaked under things.

I will give you a little analogy:

It is like a husband going out and dropping a grand on something useless and then begrudging his wife when she spends 40 bucks on a lamp.