Confederate PROM DRESS?

Come ON people... this is 2004, not 1954. It is hard to believe that people still do this now. If you want to bring up this same old sorry division over and over, to hell with you. 1865 has come and gone, the war has been over for years now. Get OVER it. Nothing good will ever come of things like this...

Nor will any good ever come from the likes of the "reverend" farrakhan and the like but you never hear any clamoring for them to be gagged.

There's a lot of folks in the South very proud of their heritage, and it has nothing to do with slavery.

There are a lot of homosexuals who are very proud of their group, and yet these same heritage-driven southerners ridicule and harass them for being so open and expressive. Why? Because they offend with bad taste and flaunt something that doesn't need to be flaunted. We GET the POINT in both cases, and yet people still do these things to push others' buttons. It's NOT right, in either case...

Personally, I think he is filth, and the worst sort of pig-headed ignorant. Nothing would bring me greater pleasure than seeing his inane and ridiculous Muslim cult come to an end. Hatred takes a lot of forms, but in his case, the Nation of Islam is nothing BUT pure hate... just another KKK-like group who uses religion to justify racial and religious prejudice.

Exactly, but it's never treated as such because it's membership is nearly 100% BLACK MUSLIM rather than WHITE CHRISTIAN.

And that is one of the SINGLE biggest problems with America today...

Just because a group is African-American, they are deemed 'untouchable' by a lot of people. The idea that reverse racism exists in great quantities is shrugged off by the African-American community. It's a racial issue that I am afraid will not be solved until people police their own communities, and quit using pop culture to raise their kids, and give a damn about them.

Yeah, bitching about free speech and the limiting of other's rights is so much more in vogue now.

It's better than bitching about everyone who comments about everything, and remains ambiguous to look better. Asking for civility in an uncivil world takes a lot more guts than remaining on the sidelines bitching and saying NOTHING.

Have you read your sig line?

YEP.

#1. Bush is no choice.

#2. The Decline of the Empire is obvious, the way things are going. Damnit, I care about America, and I call it as I see it! It all goes to lack of civility, lack of education, and polarizing extremists.

Just as I thought...

gawd, give it a rest. so she wants to wear a confederate flag. folks didn't get upset when the dukes of hazzard painted their car like one

Different time back then. Let's see what happens when the new movie is released.

yeah, someone prolly will complain about the general lee

folks seeing meanings that aren't there. i mean, the dukes are just some good ol' boys. never meanin no harm...

My daughter wants to wear a dress with swastikas all over it to her prom. Should I let her?

In all seriousness, I say sure. Freedom of speech and all. Last I checked, freedom of speech wasn't conditional on approval from any and all special interest groups that might take offense at it.

I didn't go there... I chose to give a more relevant example of the gay pride people, but of course THAT is disgusting, and should not happen, while wearing the confederate flag and parading around ISN'T...

Don't you know, it's heritage, not hate??

My great great grandfathers didn't fight and recieve battle wounds for NOTHING... free speech may apply, but it offends ME if someone parades around with that symbol on like it stands for something noble. I DISAGREE.

Depends. Does she have a permit to carry a firearm?

Nice thing about free speech...it applies to you and your disgust, too.

Sure she has a right to wear it. I think if anyone else at the prom is bothered by it they should flaunt some confederate flag toilet paper to demonstrate just what they think of the confederate heritage. The answer to free speech is more free speech. How about a tuxedo with "Sherman Rules" printed across the back?

I know that!

The Miami Dolphins suck balls!

GLORIOUS freedom!!

Hell, I'll be her date.

Ok she changed her mind, now she wants to wear a dress that has pictures of Osama bin Laden printed on it. Oh and the prom is being held in lower Manhattan.

Is he smiling?

Cliff Notes: Do as I say, not as I do.

So? Getting pissed off about Free Speech issues only gives validation to those who don't deserve it.

Nothing like a painted into corner.

?????????????????? who's pissed? who's painted?

In my mind that girl should have been allowed to wear her silly dress. She would have looked like a fat lumpy sack of potatoes in an ugly red dress.

If some black kid didn't like her dress his or her free speech could have been to don a white pointy hat.

Talk about non-issues. That girl spent four years planning to make a fool of herself. She should come here where most of you can do it without even trying!

Sounds like painful memories for you.

But she has a constitutional right to make a fool out of herself if she so chooses. That includes Confederate Flag Dresses, Osama Bin Laden t-shirts, and stirring up trouble on internet message boards where there ain't any...

What happens when that "free speech" symbolizes past physical aggression/intimidation? Does it continue to carry those threats? If it doesn't, when did it stop?

Cliff notes: Do nothing, slam everyone.

I guess the truth hurts you.

How wrong you are. I hope that for Christmas you get the stick removed from your ass. How about sticking the topic instead of bashing people personally - I said nothing to you or about you.

Perhaps YOU stayed home squeezing pimples all during high school, I wouldn't know. I DO know that had that silly girl worn that dress she probably would have been laughed out of the prom anyway and, 20 years later, embarrassed by the whole thing.

Oh, I don't know. I have a hard time remembering 20 minutes ago, let alone 20 years.

Yeah, he was the one slamming some teenage kid who was going to look like a "fat lumpy sack of potatoes in an ugly red dress." That's because you're just so darn cool.


Kind of like your posts here on PPP, huh?

I have to agree with you. What's the famous quote from Larry Flynt? How the 1st amendment doesn't protect speech you like, it protects speech you don't like. The question that needs to be asked is can a public school prohibit this type of expression.

Some great questions that no one here is bothering to answer. In certain similar cases, the high court has ruled that some such acts are immediate threats to the person and go beyond the parameters of free speech.

Does this apply to the Confederate flag? A case could be made that it represents a body politic that supported slavery and all the trappings that went along with it including whippings, lynchings, etc. Another case could point to the fact that it was on top of the General Lee and has lost the old connotation. Then again, I think that second argument is full of stevestojan....

Yet another skank looking for a way to shock people and get her name in the paper. Congratulations, honey, you got it. Now try getting any kind of management job and see how many employers want to be behind the 8 ball in a discrimination lawsuit.

"Freedom of speech is like the freedom to jump off your roof and fly. You can try it, but there's going to be consequences." - ?

Yes, it was a good question...precisely why I didn't answer it, as I was still considering it. Sometimes posts are better thought about than responded to.

But...I generally disagree with the SC on the issue, as I fail to see how the display of a symbol can constitute an immediate threat. Particularly one such as the Confederate flag, which symbolizes racism and slavery to some...and states' rights to others. Which definition of the symbol is more accurate? Whose job is it to decide? The essence of the First Amendment is to keep the responsibility for answering those questions out of the hands of the federal government.

Your final quote, though, is most telling. You want to practice freedom of speech and display the Stars and Bars...fine. That's your right. But with freedom comes responsibility...so if you want to be free to display the Confederate flag, you better be responsible enough to understand and handle the ramifications of your actions. Which means, if someone wants to point out to the world that they think your a racist pig for displaying it...well, even if it was only a statement for states' rights, you should have known what you were getting into.

No, because it is not the truth.

I don't know why I continually am baited by your responses... I'll just do what I should have done from the beginning and just make this my last response to you ever. All you ever do is continuously stay in the corner, using a verbal pitchfork to attack people, and adding nothing but snide comments, acting as if you are above reproach every single time.

You are the ONLY person on this whole entire board who does this... There are several people who I disagree with on a wide range of issues, but we always seem to end on a good note. You on the other hand NEVER WILL end anything on a good note... is your M.O. , and so I will not waste my time anymore with you; I have tried, you are hopeless.

Well she KNOWS what she is doing when she wears the dress, that is my problem. Why do you think they don't sell it in stores all over the South? It is an obvious tactic to inflame people, and to cause a controversy.

The flag on the General Lee is not offensive because its whole intent is NOT to offend to me... Now if that car was to suddenly change its meaning by appearing as if to stick it to people, then it would be different, i.e. on a bumper sticker with something referring to the North in a bad way.

Some people find it necessary to keep it all alive, and those people deserve all the trouble they get.

I don't disagree...but at the same time, it's their right to do so.

I don't disagree with you there, just as it is my right to say they can go to hell!

So there you are!

It might not constitute an immediate threat but, it serves to intimidate. By creating an intimidating demeanor you are abridging one's freedom to live peacefully.

Wouldn't the Confederate battle flag be considered the same kind of symbol as a KKK burning cross? What fear did that flag bring to a African-American during the war? Wouldn't they have been treated as run-away slaves by the approaching Confederate Army? So, I argue that the flag since its inception has instilled and ingrained the fear amongst African-Americans that it upholds the return to slavery.

There has been a lot of revisionist fancy footwork in the last 140 years. Cut through it all and it symbolizes that if you were of African decent and came across an approaching Confederate Army you would be:

1. Returned/took into the bonds of slavery.
2. Killed.

Or... If you were in Union uniform and taken prisoner... Immediately lynched or shot... That flag represents those dire consequences... Nothing good has ever come from it for African-Americans.


The last part of your post I couldn't agree more with.

What I want to say is this- The Confederacy represented everything that would go AGAINST the United States: abridging the rights of men, defying the federal government, brazenly supporting insurrection by force of arms, and REJECTING the Constitution in their actions. All of this comes together under a flag that intends to defend things that are indefensible.

The OUTRAGEOUS thing was that it was not even a war that all southerners WANTED... the slaveowners controlled the legislative bodies in the states that seceded the earliest, and the other states that bordered them felt OBLIGATED to fall in line with them to show loyalty. The NON-slaveowners fought not for states rights or slavery, but because THEY HAD TO defend their areas.

The real tragedy is we are STILL talking about this because some southerners have a complex about their 'heritage'. I know FIRST HAND about this problem, because French Canadians have the same complex... certain things like this story make things hell again, and its stupid.

Would you be OK with it if she was dressed as a cigarette (in a bar)?
As for your sig line, look at the bright side. people cannot, despite the wishes of the owner, smoke in bars. Bar owners are getting summonses for ashtray possession, and soon, there will be no tailgaiting at football games.

See? Things are looking up for leftists who take our rights away. Cheer up!

So I am supposed to accept the other side of the spectrum, and have my rights trampled on by the right who always seems to know what is best for me?

There has got to be a balance somewhere- reason and compromise. Extremism on either side hinders that goal, and righties are no better than lefties.

I will let her wear the dress, but you have to let the gay pride people have their expression as well in that case. It's freedom, whether it be irresponsible or in bad taste.

>>>I will let her wear the dress, but you have to let the gay pride people have their expression as well in that case. <<<

Why would you even bring this up? I am fine with people being proud to be gay. Why would this matter to me?

I think that the proud gays should go have a beer and a cigarette with the one who wears confederate flag in a bar, as long as this is OK with the bar owner, since it is his or her property.

Rabid is all for his freedom and the trampling of other people's rights. Pretty typical lefty.